Tokuko Got An Interview! – Part 2


👇  Here is Part 1 of the interview! 👇 Please read this first. 

Tokuko Got An Interview! – Part 1

Tokuko Got An Interview – Part 1  👈CLICK HERE!




                                  – Tokuko Got An Intervew –  Part 2 – 


MARLENE: Your blog has 5 categories:  MY Tweets, Travels, TSW & Atopic DermatitisSpiritual Posts, and Posts in English.  Recently, you have felt deep concern over the high suicide rate in Japan.  Have you tried to address this in your blog?


TOKUKO:  Yes, I have done it and the article also was a big hit and was shared by many.  We have a culture like “Being modest and quiet is beauty.” so typical Japanese don’t voice so often and tend to have stress for that.  Stress causes various kinds of sickness so I try to encourage my blog readers to let them feel uplifted.


I have many more readers in Japan than foreign countries and I add various kinds of topics in Japanese since Japanese is my first language.  The majority of popular topics are my unique mindsets to live happily, encouragement like self-development and TSW & atopic dermatitis
I certainly try to get a positive message out on my English site, too.  I think the most healing takes place when the spirits are positive and people move on from isolation.



MARLENE:  You have developed a strong relationship with all the Japanese NMT doctors, but of course, you have the most contact with the extremely busy Dr. Sato.  What can you tell us about his work?


TOKUKO:   I think Dr. Sato chose to see both inpatients and outpatients but not being a clinic doctor to see outpatients only for a few minutes once a few months or so.  I believe his choice gave this doctor’s eyes more excellent diagnostic capability but not only his natural talent and effortsHis diagnosis and advice are always AMAZINGLY accurate


For example, when he says ‘4 days.’ to see a patient’s specific part, the flare disappears 4 days later

If he said ‘7 days.’ you’d see it clears up 7 days later definitely

When he gives a direction like, “Diminish water to 1100 ml.” the patient gets amazingly well so quickly

When he says, You have done XXXXX, haven’t you?” the patient is surprised and confesses, “Yes, as a matter of fact, I did.”…lol


His eyes are a miracle and patients always run across such scenes in the hospital.  There’s no doubt he realized the condition of TSW long time ago and found the great method more than 30 years ago.


He runs free big lecture meetings all over Japan, provides free classes in the hospital, gives training/lessons for other doctors who are interested in NMT, gives advice for questions from patients who he doesn’t know on the website (in Japanese) without a fee, etc. etc.  His dedication for patients is unbelievable.



MARLENE:  What does a day in the life of Dr. Sato look like.  Can you tell us in your own words?

Many of Dr. Sato’s healed patients all over Japan gave him a gift with collage pics of used-to-be inpatients. Everybody loves him! Look at his warm smile!


TOKUKO:  Dr. Sato shows up in the hospital early in the morning.  After inpatients have finished breakfast, he sees us one by one and gives us very appropriate advice.  Then, he sees outpatients.  The reception closes the day’s appointments in the morning but he sees so many outpatients from all over Japan until evening and sometimes until late at night.


Then after he finished to see all of them, he checks all of the clinical records including young doctors’ ones.  He has so many things to do taking care of MANY patients.  Late at night, we sometimes see him sitting in front of the computer to complete things.


After that, he sometimes responds to the Japanese Q & A site that I mentioned earlier and answers questions for patients he doesn’t even know.  He doesn’t charge for this.  Dr. Mitsuko Satou (NMT super pediatrician) gives advice there too.  The site has a lot of people’s access and we can get helpful information there.  Usually, next morning, inpatients find their work and say, “Guess what?  Dr. Sato answered some questions after midnight yesterday too…When does he sleep?”


And every two or three weeks, he provides NMT classes for inpatients after dinner, actually at night.  It is VERY helpful and we learn what we have to do or what we shouldn’t do.  I post it in my blog in Japanese.  He teaches us about skin too so we get much knowledge at the classes.  During the classes, he sometimes sees inpatients again per inpatients’ request though he already saw us in the morning.  He memorizes each inpatients’ symptom and gives very appropriate advice.  We patients merrily wait in line to be seen by him again because it is fun to talk to him. 

As you also wondered already, patients always wonder “When does Dr. Sato have his meals?…His days are such hectic.

On weekends, a lot of patients say, “Awww….weekend again….I don’t know if I can get through it without Dr. Sato!”  All the inpatients love him so much.

Dr. Sato’s favorite food, ‘Yakisoba Noodle’. He might eat up three plates as long as it is this size…??? (=standard size)…lol


One day, while I was in the hospital, finally, my horrible affected part dried up completely and I was very happy for that.  I showed off the part proudly to him at the night class. 

To see it at one glance, he said, “You will scratch it tonight definitely.😙” ….It was so funny for me. 🤣

I said, “Nooooo!!!  Dr. Sato!  It took a looong time to dry up and I finally reached this phase😬.  Definitely, I won’t scratch tonight!” (^o^)o

Then he goes,  “Nope.  You can’t control it.  You’ll scratch it definitely.😎”, then I go, “Noooo!  I won’t!….”, then he goes, “Yes, you will scratch🤪.”, then I go, “Nope!  I won’t.”….we exchanged such funny conversation.


Ahen…well….I DID scratch the part at the night and all the thick crusts came off…LOL!

It was uncontrollable though it is my body…He says things as if he can foresee everything and it is always right.


Also, since mental status affects to our symptoms very much, Dr. Sato cares about it for each inpatients and notices each one’s mental status exquisitely.  Yes, he notices everything…lol  I’ve heard he has spent his time even for one hour to listen to a patient who feels down at night though he is super busy!  He lavishes his time on helping patients.  Of course, the patient’s symptom increased rapidly after that.



Most of TSW inpatients are discharged around 45 days usually and 90 days at the longest from the hospital.  We cannot stay longer than 3 months in Japan.  I was the longest inpatient that stayed. (for about 3 months)

It was amazing to see inpatients who are leaving because all of them look like a normal people!



MARLENE: It seems like there is a lot of hero worship going on in his patient community.  Can you tell us details of Dr. Sato’s professional history regarding his teaching of NMT?


TOKUKO:  Please refer the followings.



📂Dr. Sato presented a paper that No Moisturizing Treatment was effective for TSW (Topical Steroid Withdrawal) in 1994.
【Atopic Dermatitis and Dermatopathy Induced by Topical Steroids; The Appropriate Treatment and the Information of the medication】 – By Dr. Kenji Sato
The Informed Prescriber 1994;9:31-34(in Japanese)
📂Then, he announced statistical data of NMT in 1996.
【Withdrawal of Topical Steroids for the treatment of severe “Adult-type” atopic dermatitis】; Skin Research 1996;38:440-447 (in Japanese, English summary) – By Dr. Kenji Sato, Dr. Hironori Minami and 3 other doctors.
In the summary, it states as follows;
—-The skin symptoms exacerbated, and reached to the peak on average seven days later, then gradually subsided in a month. At this time, the use of the nonsteroidal agents was stopped, and exacerbation restarted, reaching to the peak in about 5 days, followed by slow improvement for about one and a half month.—-
📂Also, as for the problem of the use of topical steroids for atopic dermatitis had been explained already in his medical paper in 1985.  Dr. Sato had already recognized the condition then.  He was providing non-steroidal treatment already at that time.
【Transition of Incidence of Steroid-induced Dermatitis from 1979 to 1984】; – By Dr. Kenji Sato and Dr. Naoko Mizukoshi
Skin Research, 1985; 27: 1166-71


📂 Published ‘Treatment Derived from Clinical Observation of Prolonged Adult Atopic Dermatitis Patients – No Steroidal and No Moisturizing Treatment‘ (in Japanese) – 2008

📂 Published ‘Say No to Steroids – Treatment of Atopic Dermatitis for Babies and Children‘ (in Japanese) – 2010 by Dr. Kenji Sato & Dr. Mitsuko Sato

📂 Published ‘New Edition: Treatment Derived from Clinical Observation of Prolonged Adult Atopic Dermatitis Patients – No Steroidal and No Moisturizing Treatment‘ (in Japanese) – 2015


by Dr. Kenji Sato

by Dr. Kenji Sato/Dr. Mitsuko Satou










MARLENE: Is Dr. Sato active in other Professional Groups?


TOKUKO: Dr. Sato has lecture meetings very often.  He travels all over Japan with other NMT doctors on weekends and Japanese national holidays to have very big meetings with them.  The meetings are usually free even though they are very expensive to organize, I guess.  Recently, I attended a conference along with other NMT doctors.  It was well attended by adult patients, parents and even some dermatologists.



MARLENE:  I understand that Dr. Kenji Sato and Dr. Mitsuko Satou are members of the Education group.  This shows great respect for your work disseminating NMT information.


TOKUKO:  Yes, they are VERY supportive to help group members and are always thinking about TSW sufferers who they even have never met.  When I have questions for group members, they help me a lot.  To avoid confusion, they have approved our group as the official site of NMT and are trying to monitor as much as possible so group members can trust the information that we provide.  Translating medical things is very difficult for me but when my translation is not applicable, Dr. Sato always gives me an advice how to express it.  It is blessing!


Also, I see all the NMT doctors at conferences, meetings and parties, and at the same time, hear from many of Dr. Sato’s patients and supporters.  It is always a learning experience for me. 



Well, I recently added Dr. Mitsuko Satou‘s work with babies and children to my blog.  To see her long experience where she healed tons of babies and children without TS, I feel like it is urgent to spread her theory to the world.  It is really amazing.  Hope as many as parents take her words. 

She refers severe pediatric cases to Hannan Chuo Hospital.  The children are treated in the children’s ward, but seen by Dr. Kenji Sato. 


Believe it or not, children and babies get well once parents accept Dr. Mitsuko Satou’s words.  Her theory comes from her approximate 50 years’ experience as a pediatrician and is amazing.



MARLENE:  How much time do you spend on NMT work?


TOKUKOMy laptop remains on my lap all day long on weekends.  On Friday night to Sunday, I usually work 10 hrs a day on NMT because it is not only the blog but Facebook groups, conferences, supporting lecture meetings, etc…etc… 

My older son does chores for my activity so he also is a great supporter.  From his experience to see his mother’s super severe TSW symptoms, he really hopes no one would have such experiences any more in the world.  My younger son also encourages me very much.



MARLENE:  As well, you run some Japanese sites.  It must be a pleasure for you to answer questions in your first language.  What are the cultural differences?


TOKUKO:  Japanese is very unique.  We are born and raised in islands country so our culture and customs are different from others.  Good part is, we esteem peaceful resolution.  Bad part is, we don’t voice so much….lol  To spread the word, I feel more difficulty with disseminating NMT protocol in Japan than foreign countries.   

Still, Dr. Sato’s supporters are glad to work for that and help other sufferers spontaneously.  They are amazing people.


Because of our group-oriented culture, once you request to not do it, Japanese members don’t do it and vice versa.  So Japanese sites that I run don’t get questions but I receive questions personally via SNS after all…lol  I’m trying to help them too as much as possible and it is way too easier for me because it is my language. 

Of course, our situation in Japan is the same with foreign countries, I mean, it’s REALLY hard to find out non-steroidal doctors here too.




MARLENE:  You have many readers in both Japanese and English.  Your post called ‘A Message for the Parents with Atopic Dermatitis Children From A Used to be Mummy BabyA message for the Parents with Atopic Dermatitis Children From A Used-To-Be Mummy Baby  really resonated with many readers.  Why do you think this made many people cry?


A Message for the Parents with Atopic Dermatitis Children, From A Used-To-Be Mummy Baby


TOKUKO:  People were intrigued by my personal journey.  Actually, they say many mothers were touched very deeply by this article and it continues to be very popular in Japan. 


One mother who works on supporting TSW kids and babies sent me a message that she cried loudly when she read my journey and admitted reading it many times.  She was encouraged by the thought that it was not the parents’ fault and so they should not feel guilty about using topical steroids on their children.  Hope many more people have an opportunity to read it.



MARLENE:  You have many warriors.  A couple of months ago, Ahmed Hamadi, published a French set of notes of your blog.  Then, they were published in English.  These notes were very valuable, and the NMT sites were swamped with questions about Dr. Sato’s Protocol – especially food.  Do you still get questions about food and allergies?


Thinking about nutritional balance, Tokuko is busy for eating?  Obviously too much….lol

TOKUKO:  Yes, I do.  But Dr. Sato and the other NMT doctors agree that a healthy diet is important and that lots of protein and lipids should be included.  The warning to avoid licorice in foods or drinks that contain one of licorice byproducts is important.  Also,  common sense about your allergies before TSW/NMT should be honored.  Nutritional balance is crucial to grow new skin and rebuild body strength.




MARLENE:  The other big question that is asked repeatedly is about water restriction.  You talk about how important it is in the hospital and how everyone is cooperative because they want to get out quickly.  What are your suggestions for water restriction when it is implemented in the home?


TOKUKO:  I believe that Dr. Sato’s guidelines should be followed as closely as possible for faster healing.  However, babies and small children (under 6),  breastfeeding mothers and persons with medical issues, etc…should all be cautious and everyone, when necessary, be under a doctor’s supervision.




MARLENE:  There are many lists of key parts of the protocol.  What would your suggestion to people starting NMT?


TOKUKO:  People trying NMT should read as much as they can: my blog, my Education site using the search bar, make personal notes, and establish a list for yourself to get started:


Dr. Kenji Sato’s List

From my experience, the causes which make TSW symptoms long and severe are the followings;

  1. long term and/or stronger steroid use
  2. use of tacrolimus -protopic steroids
  3. use of moisturizers after stopping topical steroids
  4. frequent and long bath and/or shower
  5. drinking of large amount of liquid, drinking liquid during night
  6. wash out exudate and/or scrape off crust
  7. insufficient intake of protein and lipid. (Need to look up)
  8. bed rest during the day time
  9. insufficient amount of exercise
  10. be told not to scratch
  11. poor management of psychological stress
  12. Subjective assessment of signs (itch, pain etc) and no objective assessment of symptoms (erosion, red, brown, white, exudate, crust, etc )

                                              – Kenji Sato


Dr. Sato says “NMT is unbelievable but it works.


MARLENE:  On behalf of the NMT community, I would like to thank you for all the work you do to help Topical Steroid Withdrawal (TSW) sufferers.  Dr. Kenji Sato and the other NMT doctors must be very grateful to you for supporting their work.  

Thank you also for your insights into the amazing Dr. Kenji Sato and his team of followers.  



<<Interviewer’s Note>>

IN APPRECIATION to International Topical Steroid Withdrawal Association (ITSAN) where Tom and Marlene Bell found Tokuko’s blog & Dr. Kenji Sato discoverer of NMT> It is because of their (No Moisturizing Treatment) NMT work that we are able to celebrate….our 60th anniversary August 1, 1959 – 21,915 days

(NMT) Dec. 3 2018-April 2019 
Tom has healed at 85 years old.


                                                     – Marlene Diana Bell –





<<Tokuko’s Note>>


It was a great experience to get an interview with this amazing lady, Marlene.

As a caregiver, she had been helping her husband, Tom, and then, after his healing with NMT, she started to pay it forward.  Her dedication to the community is outstanding and Tom’s cooperation also is blessing!  They keep encouraging sufferers.  She is like a mother in NMT family.  I don’t know how to thank her for her assistance and love to TSW sufferers in the world.


From the bottom of my heart, congratulations on your 60th Anniversary, Marlene and Tom!  I’m proud of you and feel very lucky to be able to celebrate the best couple’s special day resuming healthy life!







#Tokuko’s Room To Feel Uplifted  #tokukosroomtofeeluplifted  #NMT  #TSW  #No Moisturizing Treatment

Tokuko Got An Interview! – Part 2」への2件のフィードバック

    • Dr. Sato,

      Thank you very much for reading these long reports!

      A lot of TSW sufferers are interested in you not only your clinical history but your personality too. (^o^;
      So having conversation with moderators of Facebook groups, Marlene suggested to introduce you more via an interview.
      This time, discussing with her, I posted it in my blog first. We are planning to share this here and there!

      Thanks again for your support as always! I appreciate it!


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